From: ilva@cc.Helsinki.FI (Jyrki T Ilva) Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.oldies,rec.games.trivia Subject: RESULTS: Golden Oldies Lyrics Quiz #82 (GOLQ82) Date: 11 Oct 1995 15:32:42 GMT Organization: University of Helsinki Message-ID: <45go2q$lqf@oravannahka.Helsinki.FI> RESULTS & ANSWER KEY for Golden Oldies Lyrics Quiz #82 (GOLQ82) Congratulations to the team of Barry Silk, Scooter Magruder and Joe Haertel, who won the quiz with a near-perfect 490++ score! Jamie Lubin was second with another superb score, and Iris Shapiro's Gypsy Caravan was third after an outstanding performance. Rick & Kathy Schubert, The Wicked Boys and Really Rockin' In Boston all achieved excellent scores, and The Genasys Team, The EJ's & co. and the team of Curt Miller and Steve Potter also did a very good job. Howard Teitelbaum will be posting GOLQ83 later today. Thanks to all who entered! Jyrki & Pekka ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tie Breaker Scoring Key + after numeric score below indicates a tie-breaker answered correctly. - indicates partial credit. X indicates a totally incorrect guess. . indicates no guess. # on Pos. Score ID Name team age(s) ---|------|--|--------------------------------------------------|--|------ 1 490++ BS Barry Silk, Scooter Magruder & Joe Haertel 3 40s 2 470X+ JL Jamie Lubin 1 50 3 419++ IS Iris Shapiro's Gypsy Caravan w/Chris Stone, Norm 5 21+ Katuna, Jack Freeman & Wayne Swickley 4 360++ RK Rick & Kathy Schubert 2 42,46 5 349++ WB The Wicked Boys - Sanford Stein, Paul Hallaman, 3 44,45 Keith Wood 6 300++ RR Really Rockin' In Boston 7 279++ GT The Genasys Team 4 various 8 270.. EJ EJ's & co.: Ellis, Jeff, Steve, Molly, Bill, 11 30+ Jake, Ron, Danda, Denise, Mitch, Nancy 9 269.. CS Curt Miller, Steve Potter 2 46,48 10 210++ MW Mike Weaver, Ben Bagdonas, George McLellan 3 45+ 11 199.+ TA Team Asia (Mitch and Barry) 2 43 12 180.+ RS Ron & Sally Crandall 2 44 13 169X+ DT Delphi Trivia Club 7 30s-50s 14 160.. GR Gil Rodman 1 30 15 150++ TU T.P.Uschanov 1 T16 140.. BG Bruce Long & Georgeann Lorentz 2 40s T16 140.. LE L'Equipe (Margaret Thomas & Denis Menard) 2 18 130.. TO Tom O'Connor & Associates 4 30s 19 120+. PO Pete Olden 1 40+ T20 120.. WM Will McCorry 1 38 T20 120.. TC Team Corning 4 various T20 120.. DO The Dutch Officials 4 20s-30s T20 120.. MF Michael Flint 1 44 24 110.+ LB Lori Bailey 1 40 25 100.. HB Howard Teitelbaum & Bonnie Teitelbaum 2 37,45 26 90.+ JR Jessica Raine 1 21 27 89.. GC Gregory Chambers 1 42 28 80.. EH hymie! (eric b. hymowitz) 1 25 29 70.+ EF Eugene B. Fredericks 1 25 30 68.. EM Evelyn Martinez 1 45 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The following table gives the individual scoring breakdown. A '-' is used to indicate that no guess was made for the question, whereas a zero indicates that a completely incorrect answer was submitted. Song# ID 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 --|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|-- BS 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 10 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 JL 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 0 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 10 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 IS 20 - - 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 - 20 - 20 20 20 19 20 20 20 20 20 RK 20 20 20 20 - 0 20 0 20 20 20 20 20 0 0 0 20 20 20 20 20 0 20 20 20 WB 20 20 0 20 0 20 20 - 20 20 20 - - - - 10 20 20 20 19 20 20 20 20 20 RR 20 20 - - 20 20 20 - 20 20 - - - - 0 - 20 0 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 GT 20 20 - 20 - - 19 20 20 20 - - - - - - 20 20 20 - 20 20 20 - 20 EJ 20 - - - 20 10 0 20 20 - - 0 - - - - 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 CS 20 - - - 20 20 19 - 20 - - - 20 0 - 10 20 20 20 20 0 20 20 20 - MW 20 - 0 0 20 0 - 20 20 20 - - - - - - 20 10 20 - - 20 20 20 - TA 20 0 0 0 - 0 0 0 20 - - - - - - - 20 20 20 19 - 20 20 20 20 RS 20 20 - 20 0 20 - 0 20 - - - - 0 - 0 20 20 - - - - 20 20 - DT - - - - 9 - - - 20 20 - - 0 - - - 20 20 20 - - - 20 20 20 GR - - 20 - - 20 - - 20 - - - - - - - 20 20 20 20 - - - 20 - TU - - - - 20 - 20 0 - 20 0 - 20 - - - - 10 20 20 20 - - - - BG 20 - - - - - - - 20 - - - - - - - 20 - - - - 20 20 20 20 LE - - - - - - - 20 20 20 - - - - - - 20 - 20 - - - 20 20 - TO 20 - - - 20 - - - 10 - - - - - - - 20 - 20 - - - 20 20 - PO - - - - - - - - 20 - - - 0 - - - 20 - 20 - - 20 20 20 - WM - - - 20 - - - - 20 - - 0 - - - - 20 - 20 - - - 20 20 - TC - - - - - - - - 20 - - - - - - - 20 - 20 - - 20 20 20 - DO 20 - - - - - - - 20 20 - - - - - - - - 20 - 0 20 20 - - MF - - - - - - - 20 20 - - - - - - - 20 - 20 - - - 20 20 - LB - - - - - - - - 20 - - - - - - - 20 - 20 - 0 10 20 20 - HB - - - - - - - - 20 - - - - - - - 20 - 20 - - - 20 20 - JR - - - - - - - - 10 - - - - - - - 20 - 20 - - - 20 20 - CG - - - - - - - 10 19 - - - - - - - 20 - 20 - - - 20 - - EH - - - - - - - - 20 - - - - - - - - - 20 - - - 20 20 - EF - - - - - - - - 10 20 - - - - - - - - 20 - - - 20 - - EM - - - - - - 0 - 10 - - - - - - - 18 - 20 - - - - 20 - --|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|-- ID 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ GOLDEN OLDIES LYRICS QUIZ #82 ANSWERS: Answers are in the form: #number) Artist: "Title" (year[s]) [peak pos. on Billboard Chart] {peak R&B} Well, I know you can buy her fancy clothes and diamond rings But I believe she's a-happy with me without those things Still you beg me to set her free But my friend that will never be #01) Arthur Alexander: "You Better Move On" (1962) [24] {-} [Barry said that it was written by Arthur Alexander.] [EJ's & co. noted that it was the first and biggest hit for this soul singer from Alabama.] [It was also the first hit for Rick Hall's Fame studios. Alexander was a talented singer and songwriter, but he couldn't handle his sudden popularity, and the rest of his career was plagued by deep insecurity and other serious personal problems. In the eighties he mainly worked as a schoolbus driver in Alabama, but last year he recorded his comeback album. Sadly, he died only a few weeks after the record was released.] If your baby treats you wrong Don't go round, singing the blues Remember my friend, everybody can't win Somebody, somebody's gotta lose #02) Gene Allison: "You Can Make It If You Try" (1957/58) [36] {3} [Barry said that the song was written by Ted Jarrett and covered later by Solomon Burke. He added that Allison was born in Nashville, TN.] [Rick remembered an uncharted cover version by Johnny Adams.] I remember when I brought you home I remember what my mama said When I told her that I loved you so She told me I was outta my head #03) Bob B. Soxx & the Bluejeans: "Not Too Young to Get Married" (1963) [63] {-} [Jamie, Barry and Rick all said that it was written by Jeff Barry, Ellie Greenwich & Phil Spector. Barry added that it was produced by Spector, and Greenwich and Barry were also known as the Raindrops. Rick mentioned that it was arranged by Jack Nitszche.] People always said, darling That I didn't mean you no good And you would leave me someday Way deep down in my heart I know I've done the best I could That's why I know that one of these days, it won't be long You come walking through that same door #04) Solomon Burke: "If You Need Me" (1963) [37] {2} [Jamie commented that Wilson Pickett, who was among the writers, had his 1st solo charted song with this, #64 in '63.] You can ask them please, please, please, please break And all your love Is there to take #05) Charms: "Hearts of Stone" (1954/55) [15] {1} [Jamie said that it was done originally by the Jewels in '54.] [EJ's & co. commented: "Written by Eddy Ray and Rudy Jackson, and originally recorded by the Jewels in 1954 (that version did not make the pop chart). The Charms' version did---and was also #1 on the R&B charts for 9 weeks---but The Fontane Sisters' cover was the bigger hit on the pop chart, #1 for three weeks in early 1955. Bill Black's Combo had a hit with an instrumental version in 1961. And The Blue Ridge Rangers also recorded the song in 1973."] Evening sun is sinking low The clock on the wall says it's time to go I got my plans, I don't know about you I'll tell you exactly what I'm gonna do #06) Sam Cooke: "Good Times" (1964) [11] {11} [Barry noted that it was written by Cooke.] [Aretha Franklin has also recorded it on one of her Atlantic albums.] [The original mono version of the song (which is dominated by the guitar)is much better than the stereo version, in which you can hardly hear any guitar at all. Unfortunately it is the stereo version that is nowadays more commonly available.] I said if you leave me baby Girl, if you put me down Well, I'm going to the nearest river, child And jump overboard and drown #07) Don Covay & the Goodtimers: "Mercy, Mercy" (1964) [35] {35} [Jamie noted that the song was co-written by Don.] Just then a car speeded by And screaming of brakes, a sound that made my blood chill, For my neighbor's one child had been pulled from the path And saved by a girl lying still The child was unhurt and my neighbor cried out "Oh who was that brave girl so sweet?" I covered the crash-broken body and said: "The bad girl who lived down the street" #08) Dion: "Be Careful Of Stones That You Throw" (1963) [31] {-} [EJ's & co mentioned that Hank Williams, recording as Luke The Drifter, had the original.] But I would not feel so all alone Everybody must get stoned #09) Bob Dylan: "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35" (1966) [2] {-} [Jamie and EJ's & co. both mentioned that it written by Bob. EJ's co. added that it was from the album "Blonde On Blonde".] [Hymie said that Bob was born Robert Allen Zimmerman, and "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35" was one of his two #2 hits (the other was "Like a Rolling Stone").] [The Dutch Officials said that it hit #9 in the Netherlands, staying ten weeks on the chart.] On a weekend pass I wouldn't have had time To get home and marry That baby of mine #10) Everly Brothers: "Ebony Eyes" (1961) [8] {25} [Jamie and the Dutch Officials both mentioned that it was written by John D. Loudermilk.] [T.P.Uschanov commented: "I wish to take back my statement about Gale Garnett's "We'll Sing in the Sunshine" being the worst Top 40 hit of the '60s. Or, to paraphrase Jimmy Guterman and Owen O'Donnell, "How can there be a chapel ACROSS THE STREET from an AIRPORT?") What's that I see A great big stone wall Stands there ahead of me #11) Impressions: "Keep On Pushing" (1964) [10]{10} [Both Jamie and Barry mentioned that it was written by Curtis Mayfield. Barry added that the Impressions were made up by members of two groups: Arthur and Richard Brooks and Sam Gooden of the Roosters, and Jerry Butler and Curtis Mayfield of the Northern Jubilee Gospel Singers.] [One of their many Civil Rights songs.] Someone to talk to Someone to love Someone to hold me From Heaven above #12) Innocents: "Honest I Do" (1960) [28] {-} [Of course, the Innocents had earlier sung behind Kathy Young on her version of the Rivileers' "A Thousand Stars".] If there's anyone here Who knows why these two people Should not be joined together Let them speak now Or forever hold their peace #13) Etta James: "Stop the Wedding" (1962) [34] {6} [Etta was born Jamesetta Hawkins on 1/25/38 in Los Angeles. Her first R&B hit was "The Wallflower" in 1955. She had her commercially most successful years during the early sixties on Argo (a subsidiary of Chess). Her career suffered from serious drug-related problems, but she was finally cured in the mid-seventies. She also performed (as a gospel singer) at the opening ceremonies of the Los Angeles Olympic Games in 1984. Incidentally, a biography of her came out a few months ago.] Oh, I can't picture you By anyone else's side And I can't picture me As anyone else's bride #14) Jelly Beans: "Baby Be Mine" (1964) [51] {51} [Jelly Beans were a quintet from Jersey city; this song was the follow-up to their biggest hit, "I Wanna Love Him So Bad".] Then the preacher, oh yeah The preacher asked that there be silence please If any objections to this wedding, speak now Or forever, forever hold your peace #15) Gladys Knight & the Pips: "It Should Have Been Me" (1968) [40] {9} [Written by Norman Whitfield and William "Mickey" Stevenson. Originally recorded by Stevenson's wife, Kim Weston, as her first Tamla single in 1963. A version by Yvonne Fair hit #86 on the Billboard pop chart in 1976.] You may talk about me And scandalize my name But deep down inside, baby I know you're my only man So don't worry about me, baby Cause I'm right here at home #16) Barbara Lynn: "Oh! Baby (We Got a Good Thing Goin')" (1964) [69] {69} [Written by Barbara.] Every place I go, I think of you Every song I sing, I sing for you When I come back, I'll wear your wedding ring #17) Peter, Paul & Mary: "Leaving On a Jet Plane" (1969/70) [1] {-} [EJ's & co. commented: "Written by John Denver. From the album "Album 1700". A million-seller, the biggest and last top 100 hit for the folk trio."] I'm so glad to be here tonight I'm glad to be in your wonderful city And I got a little message for you That a friend of mine told me a few months back #18) Wilson Pickett: "Everybody Needs Somebody to Love" (1967) [27] {19} [Jamie mentioned that Solomon Burke, who charted with this, #58 in '64, was among the writers.] [EJ's & co. said that it was written by Bert Berns, Solomon Burke and Jerry Wexler; Burke recorded the original version in 1964. They added that in 1993 it hit the charts again, retitled "Life (Everybody Needs Somebody To Love)" by Haddaway.] Sad sack was a-sitting on a block of stone Way over in the corner weeping all alone #19) Elvis Presley: "Jailhouse Rock" (1956/57) [1] {1} [EJ's & co. commented: "Written by Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, who worked from the script they received for the movie "Jailhouse Rock," which was marked where the songs were to be placed. A hat trick---#1 on the pop chart (7 weeks), the R&B chart (5 weeks), and the country chart(1 week)--- it was a four-million seller. Included on the album "Elvis' Golden Records." Features fine performances by Scotty Moore on guitar and D.J. Fontana on drums."] [Rick said that it is from the movie of the same name. "This song was #1 for 7 weeks on the Best Sellers In Stores charts, #1 for 6 weeks on the Top 100 charts, #1 for 2 weeks on the Most Played By Jockeys charts, #1 for 5 weeks on the Top R&B Singles charts, and #1 for 1 week on the Top Country Singles charts."] [Jamie added that it was on the pop charts for 27 weeks.] [The Dutch Officials said that it hit #5 in the Netherlands in 1974, staying nine weeks on the chart.] [Barry mentioned that he just saw the film for the first time last weekend!] You are tired And you want to be free My love's growing stronger As you become a habit to me #20) Otis Redding: "I've Been Loving You Too Long (To Stop Now)" (1965) [21] {2} [Jamie, Barry and EJ's & co. all said that it was written by Jerry Butler & Otis in a Buffalo hotel room while the two were on tour. EJ's & co. added that it was produced by Steve Cropper. They said that a "live" version was released in 1971, more than three years after Redding's death---but that one did not crack the Top 100 (Rick said that it Bubbled Under at #110). They also mentioned that it was recorded by Ike & Tina Turner in 1969.] [Jerry Butler recorded the song for his "Soul Goes On" LP in 1967. Irma Thomas also did a version during her brief stay on the Chess label in 1967-68.] Please tell me you love me Stop driving me mad You're the sweetest little woman That I e-ever had #21) Jimmy Reed: "Honest I Do" (1957/58) [32] {4} [Jamie said that it was co-written by Jimmy and recorded by Aretha Franklin in '69. Rick mentioned that his real name was Mathis James Reed, and he was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame in 1991.] [T.P.Uschanov noted that it's largely the same tune as Little Richard's "Send Me Some Lovin'" from the same year! "Who copied who?", TPU asked.] [According to Whitburn, "Send Me Some Lovin'" first charted almost six months before "Honest I Do".] What's different about her I don't really know No matter how I try I just can't make her cry #22) Rolling Stones: "Heart of Stone" (1965) [19] {-} [Jamie said that it was written by Mick Jagger & Keith Richards] [The Dutch Offcials mentioned that it hit #6 in the Netherlands, staying 16 weeks on the chart.] I've built walls A fortress deep and mighty That none may penetrate #23) Simon & Garfunkel: "I Am a Rock" (1966) [3] {-} [Jamie noted that it was written by Paul Simon.] [According to the information provided by the Dutch Officials, the song hit #11 in the Netherlands.] I am no better and neither are you We are the same whatever we do You love me, you hate me, you know me and then You can't figure out the bag I'm in #24) Sly & the Family Stone: "Everyday People" (1968/69) [1] {1} [Jamie, Barry and EJ's & co. all said that it was written and produced by Sly Stone (Sylvester Stewart).] [EJ's & co. commented: "A million-seller, it was the group's biggest hit, their first #1 song, as well as #1 on the R&B chart (for 2 weeks). From the album "Stand!" Popularized the phrase, "Different strokes for different folks." Also recorded by Joan Jett & The Blackhearts in 1983. And its chorus was used in a top 10 hit, "People Everyday," by the rap group Arrested Development in 1992."] [Jamie added that Sly Stone got married on stage at Madison Square Garden (in front of 10,000 people).] I've been to see the preacher man "A preacher man? You must be losing your mind!" I started "Started what?" Started making wedding plans "Oh really?" Oh yeah #25) Ike & Tina Turner: "It's Gonna Work Out Fine" (1961) [14]{2} [Both Jamie and EJ's & co. said that it was written by Rose Marie McCoy and Sylvia McKinney. EJ's & co. added that it was produced by Juggy Murray, and Mickey & Sylvia provided the back-up vocals.] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tie-breakers: In the beginning There was nothing but rocks Then somebody invented the wheel And things just began to roll #T1) Coasters: "That Is Rock And Roll" (1959) [-] {-} [Barry commented: "Written by Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller. The Coasters consisted of Carl Gardner, Billy Guy, Cornell Gunther, and Will "Dub" Jones on this record. Jerry Leiber sang the lead vocal on bridge."] [Rick said: "The flipside of "Along Came Jones"; in my opinion "That Is Rock And Roll" is a much better song."] [T.P.U. mentioned that it was one of the earlier rock discs to be recorded in true stereo, but according to him, the stereo mix of this track is immeasurably inferior to the mono one.] You recall a girl that's been In nearly every song This is what I've heard Of course, the story could be wrong #T2) Buddy Holly: "Peggy Sue Got Married" (1959) [-] {-} [T.P.U. commented: "Another of those posthumously overdubbed voice-and-guitar demos. Based on true life events, as the Peggy Sue "Peggy Sue" got its title from had indeed married Holly's erstwhile drummer Jerry Allison in August, 1958.") [Barry mentioned that it was written by Buddy Holly and recorded in Buddy & Maria Elena Holly's apartment in January 1959, about one months before his fateful plane crash.] [After Holly's death, the demo was quickly overdubbed by a New York studio group led by Jack Hansen. The first of Holly's numerous posthumous singles; a top twenty hit in the UK.] [Team Asia said that it was recorded by Fleetwood Mac with different words under the title "Buddy's Song" on their 1970 album, "Kiln House."] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ THEMES: -weddings, getting married (#03, 10, 13, 14, 15, 17, 25, T2) Identified by: BS, RR, JL, RK, TA, MW, EJ, PO, WB, LB, TU, CS -rocks, stones, getting stoned (#05, 08, 09, 11, 19, 22, 23, 24, T1) Identified by: BS, RR, JL, TA, TC, MW, EJ, PO, WB, LB, TU, DT, CS -songs recorded by the Rolling Stones (#01, 02, 04, 06, 07, 16, 18, 20, 21, 22) Identified by: RR, TA, WB, CS -Heart(s) of Stone (#05, 22) Identified by: BS -Honest I Do (#12, 21) Identified by: BS, JL Several teams mentioned that many of the lyrics were spoken, but that was purely unintentional. The Delphi Trivia Club also noted that many of the artists have been inducted into the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame, but I guess that's unavoidable in a quiz like this. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This chart ranks the songs/artists from most recognized to least recognized. The 3rd number on the line denotes the average number of points scored on that song (total points divided by number of entrants, to 1 decimal place). For comparison purposes, tie-breakers are scored here on the usual 20-point scale. Rank Song Avg. Title 01 #19 18.7 Elvis Presley: "Jailhouse Rock" 02 #23 18.0 Simon & Garfunkel: "I Am a Rock" 03 #09 18.0 Bob Dylan: "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35" 04 #17 17.3 Peter, Paul & Mary: "Leaving On a Jet Plane" 05 #24 16.7 Sly & the Family Stone: "Everyday People" T06 #01 10.0 Arthur Alexander: "You Better Move On" T06 #T2 10.0 Buddy Holly: "Peggy Sue Got Married" 08 #22 9.7 Rolling Stones: "Heart of Stone" T09 #10 8.7 Everly Brothers: "Ebony Eyes" T09 #18 8.7 Wilson Pickett: "Everybody Needs Somebody to Love" 11 #25 7.3 Ike & Tina Turner: "It's Gonna Work Out Fine" 12 #20 7.2 Otis Redding: "I've Been Loving You Too Long (To Stop Now)" 13 #05 6.3 Charms: "Hearts of Stone" T14 #21 6.0 Jimmy Reed: "Honest I Do" T14 #T1 6.0 Coasters: "That Is Rock And Roll" 16 #07 5.9 Don Covay & the Goodtimers: "Mercy, Mercy" 17 #06 5.7 Sam Cooke: "Good Times" 18 #04 5.3 Solomon Burke: "If You Need Me" 19 #08 5.0 Dion: "Be Careful Of Stones That You Throw" 20 #02 4.7 Gene Allison: "You Can Make It If You Try" 21 #13 4.0 Etta James: "Stop the Wedding" 22 #11 3.3 Impressions: "Keep On Pushing" T23 #03 2.7 Bob B. Soxx & the Blue Jeans: "Not Too Young To Get Married" T23 #12 2.7 Innocents: "Honest I Do" 25 #15 2.0 Gladys Knight & the Pips: "It Should Have Been Me" T26 #14 1.3 Jelly Beans: "Baby Be Mine" T26 #16 1.3 Barbara Lynn: "Oh! Baby (We Got a Good Thing Goin')" The only big surprise was that #05 didn't do any better - we had expected that almost everyone would get it. Songs #22, #21, #07 and #08 did slightly better than we thought they would, and #06 and #03 did somewhat worse. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The following information is courtesy of Jamie Lubin: From WCBS-FM NY/NJ/CT listener-voted surveys of the top 500 songs of all time: Song 1993 1991 1983 1979 1972 *comp ---------------------------------- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Leaving On A Jet Plane #481 Jailhouse Rock #30 #25 #20 #11 #86 **#10 Everyday People #374 * compilation of 10 top 500 lists (1972 & [1975 thru 1991--odd years]) ** made all 10 top 500 lists on the compilation ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jyrki Ilva & Pekka Halonen --- ilva@cc.helsinki.fi